Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Success isn't given, it's earned. And earning it means becoming the person who deserves it. The bottom line is where we cut through the chaos to simplify success, uncovering the strategies, mindset and resilience it takes to win. Real stories, expert insights, and practical tools. Because the only way to the top is by putting in the board. This is the bottom line.
Welcome to the Bottom Line. I'm your host, Ryan Herpin. And on this show we cut through the business no to clarity, strategy and the mindsets that actually move people and organizations forward. Today we're doing that with AI. Now, I know this is a hot topic right now. AI has got all the buzz and how we can use it, how we can abuse it, and how we can improve things in our life by properly utilizing it. So many business owners know artificial intelligence can help them, but they're not exactly sure where to begin or which opportunities will actually create value. So my guest today is someone I am extremely excited to bring onto the show, TJ Thomas. He is the founder and owner of Phantom Ops, an AI automation agency helping small to midsize businesses, streamline operations, reduce unnecessary admin work, and build practical aid driven workflows. So, tj, welcome to the show. It is such a pleasure to have you here.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, Ryan. I really appreciate the time that you guys have taken.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Now, this has been a long time in the works for you and I. We've built a relationship over pretty much the last year, you know, through some of the networking that we've done and, and we found that you and I actually serve a lot of the same type of clients. And with that, there is an opportunity for you to even help advance my firm in the world of how to properly utilize AI for clients alike. So what I'm curious about to kind of really dive into this, what led you to launch Phantom Ops and what problem did you see businesses repeatedly struggling to solve?
[00:02:03] Speaker B: So what I kept seeing was businesses that were hearing about AI everywhere. But there was a massive gap between knowing AI that exists and actually implementing it inside the businesses. A business owner might be using ChatGPT every day, but that doesn't necessarily mean AI is actually improving the way that the business operates.
[00:02:23] Speaker A: That's a really good point. You know, it's easy to throw something in the mix, but if it's not really evaluated, understood, and implemented well, does it really add value, save time, or reduce problems? Right. It could just be an additional step that looks fancy and might seem to help. But the reality is not every solution is a solution.
Sometimes it's just an additional step things down. So, you know, you say most businesses know they should be using AI, but very few know where to start. Why is that gap so common?
[00:02:57] Speaker B: I think it's because we're experiencing an incredible amount of technological changes in a very short period of time. So, like every week, there's always an AI model or another AI agent or another platform or just another tool that's out there now. And if you're a business owner, you already have a business to run. You don't have time to become an AI researcher. So businesses tend to fall into two camps.
They either do not do anything because they're overwhelmed, or they start buying AI tools without really having a strategy for how to use those tools and how those tools are supposed to change businesses.
[00:03:33] Speaker A: That's a fair point. I mean, a strategy really is, is at the center of pretty much everything. Doesn't matter what tool you have or what you use, or what, you know, skills or abilities you have. If you don't have a strategy to follow suit, it really does slow everything down. And AI is very much the same way. You can have cool tools that might make a couple tasks a little bit easier, but having it work for you is a game changer in business. Now, I know I've some of my clients and including my own firm, we've tried to utilize AI as much as we can to automate, to simplify, and to improve our processes. But I still feel like even I am scratching the surface of what's capable. And I believe that because I've witnessed some of the work you do, I've seen, I've had you explain to me the, the abilities of Claude, ChatGPT and so many other, you know, different AI tools that I'm realizing this is so underutilized by so many businesses. But when you first look at a business, how do you identify the inefficiencies or repetitive processes that are worth automating?
[00:04:39] Speaker B: So I start with the workflow, not the technology at all.
I want to understand what's actually happening inside of the business.
So, for example, where are employees copying information from? Is it moving from one system to another system? Are people manually following up?
Where are the spreadsheets being updated, so on and so forth. And like, where is somebody spending time doing something that a system could potentially handle? Then I look at three things. The frequency, time, and business impact. If somebody happens once a month automating it, it probably isn't going to transform the business.
But if something's happening 100 times of the month and employees are spending hours dealing with it. That's where the opportunity really becomes significant.
And also once I understand the human side of it, sometimes the biggest opportunity isn't necessarily the process that's the most obvious on paper. It's the process that employees are constantly complaining about because it's slowing them down. No business has been operating the same like it has been 20 years ago. Everything changes. So we have to know what's happening
[00:05:46] Speaker A: in now's business that makes complete sense. I mean businesses are always evolving, changing, growing.
To do the same thing for that long is just, it's just not reasonable, especially as the market changes. But you know, something that I find interesting is you mentioned the repeatable tasks that are now. It really consumes time. Not done just maybe once or twice, but 100 plus even. You know, I'm thinking, you know, customer communication, quotations, estimates, file transfers, you know, interdepartmental communications. Like there's, I feel like there's so much there, whether it be a small startup all the way to midsize manufacturing, whatever it may be, there's a lot of room for tools such as that to really be implemented. And you know, coming from the manufacturing background and manufacturing very complex product, there were so many parts of the process that was repetitive, yet mistakes were occurring.
You had the few same people doing the same tasks over and over and over with small subtle changes, but mistakes were still possible. And it sounds like with AI utilizing it correctly, you're mitigating those mistakes, you're minimizing the risk that is involved in the consistent workflows and operations. Would you say that's Fairly accurate?
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Yes, 100%. At the end of the day, if it's a repetitive task that doesn't need a human's input, it can be done and there's going to be a significant reduction in human error.
[00:07:16] Speaker A: So for a small or mid sized business that has never implemented AI strategically, what is usually the best first process that can be improved?
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Well, I would start with something that's repetitive, measurable and relatively low risk at first. That could be such as your lead follow ups, your appointment reminders, customer onboarding, reporting or even data entry itself. I wouldn't recommend a business trying to automate everything immediately. That would probably be one of the biggest mistakes possible.
I would say start with one bottleneck, solve it and then measure the results, then move on to the next opportunity. You don't need to become an AI company overnight. That's the biggest mistake.
[00:07:57] Speaker A: You know, I love how you laid out your process that it's very similar to the process that I use in my firm is we evaluate what's really going on, what's the current setting, what's the current situation, Then we align, we make sure that the goal is the same, we understand where we're trying to go, what we're trying to accomplish, and then we execute. We implement what needs to be implemented, what we change, what needs to be changed.
Then we measure so that you can manage, you can't truly manage what you do not measure. So you got to be able to measure the actual results, what's really improved, what's really changed, so you can adjust as you go. So you laid out that same kind of framework which gives you the best likelihood of success. So, you know, something I'm kind of curious about is, is how do you distinguish between automation that creates real business value and adopting AI simply because it's the latest technology or the fad? Right. I feel like a lot of people are pressured, they feel pressured to bring AI into the mix. But yeah, how, how do you distinguish between, you know, what really creates that value and that, that just pressure to bring it in because it's new technology?
[00:09:01] Speaker B: Well, I'd ask one question. What changes if we implement this? If the answer is nothing measurable, then why are we doing it? If we're saving employees 10 hours a week, reducing errors, responding to customers faster, increasing capacity, or helping salespeople follow up with more prospects, then we're creating an actual business value. AI isn't the objective. Business improvement is the objective. And I don't think that there's, that's where businesses need to be careful. Don't adopt AI because everybody's talking about it. Adopt it because there's a business platform that AI can solve.
[00:09:38] Speaker A: I, I like that. It's not just bring it in because, you know, for the sake of having it. It's a matter of what can actually be solved. It's, it's. The whole focus is creating value within the business. It's not just some arbitrary, gimmicky, hey, you know, we utilize AI now in our business improve process, but they don't, they have no idea what that actually means. They're not actually utilizing, they might be doing it to, hey, give me information for this report or maybe correct this message or help me write an email. That's not really applying AI in a way that truly adds value.
I feel like a lot of small businesses especially use it for those remedial tasks such as that. But if I were to think where A lot of my clients struggle.
It's in the consistency and follow up for sales, for, for leads for potential clients. There is a breakdown and consistency of follow up. Now I know there's CRMs out there that help with a lot of this, but there's also AI solutions that can make this significantly easier, more manageable, more obtainable. You know, would you say that's a pretty common area on your end that you've seen in businesses that could use the, the type of automation you do?
[00:10:50] Speaker B: 100%. I do believe that. And simply because you're going to be eliminating a lot of the guessing work, a lot of the guessing work will be eliminated and you can get either your yeses quicker or your nose quicker and move on with the next pitch.
That's my, that's how I see it.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: I like that. And, and to have a system like this established and implemented, is there a lot of maintenance involved in keeping that running?
[00:11:16] Speaker B: It depends. If the business changes drastically, then yes. If it doesn't, then change on a weekly basis anyway.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Right? Yeah. I mean, unless you're really trying to navigate some problems. But even then I like how you frame that. So to our audience when we come back, we will look at how phantom ops turns repetitive processes into intelligent workflows across lead generation, onboarding, follow up and internal operations. So we will be right back with more of the Bottom Line.
Welcome back to the Bottom Line. Stay connected to this show and every NOW Media TV favorite live or on demand, anytime you like. Download the free Now Media TV app on Roku iOS and unlock non stop bilingual programming in English and Spanish on the move. Feel free to catch the podcast version at www.nowmedia.tv. from business and news to lifestyle, culture, innovation and far beyond, NOW Media TV is streaming around the clock. Ready whenever you are.
Now we are back and before the break, TJ Thomas and I talked about cutting through the AI noise and finding a practical place to start.
Now throughout my career as a consultant, as AI has evolved and become more relevant, finding that starting place was most definitely complicated and I think TJ did a great job of breaking that down for us. So now we are going to much deeper into workflow design, system integration and the everyday bottlenecks where automation can create immediate value and give teams more room to focus on higher value work. So tj, it is such a pleasure to have you here. I'm glad that you're on the show. This has been pretty fun so far.
[00:13:08] Speaker B: Yeah, definitely has been.
[00:13:10] Speaker A: Now as we, as we dive into this conversation, a little bit Further, you know, understanding what really matters here is, is important because like we addressed in the last segment that we don't, it doesn't make sense to get AI just for AI sake. We want to get it because it actually adds value. So what I'm kind of curious about at this moment is when you begin an automation project, what does your discovery process look like before you build anything?
[00:13:38] Speaker B: So before I build anything, I want to understand the existing process, what triggers it, what information comes in, what handles it, what systems are involved, what decisions are made. There's many things to go into consideration when building it. I also want to speak about, speak to the people about doing the work because sometimes the process management thinks it's happening when it isn't the process happening on the ground. Because we can automate a bad process.
You don't necessarily create efficiency, you can just automate inefficiency. So the discovery is probably one of the most important parts of the entire project, if not the most important part of the project.
[00:14:22] Speaker A: That's a really good point. And you actually gave an angle I didn't really think too much about. Because the ideal 10,000 foot process for anything might be a little bit different or vastly different from what actually happens in the physical world of things. Now I've seen this a lot in manufacturing where you've got an ideal process for inventory controls or moving certain materials or building a certain type of product.
But the reality is a little bit different. And in the area that I would see this the most, and it's most, I would say, relatable to a lot of manufacturing is the difference between engineers and the people that actually build the product.
That's a great example of the 10,000 foot, here's what we believe versus here's what really happens. So I find that to be extremely important that you addressed it as, you know, ensuring that there's actually alignment. Because if you try to automate a process that's not actually good or not working, you're only amplifying and automating the problem. Right? It's not necessarily solving anything, it might actually be creating more issues. So, you know, how can AI automate, you know, automation really improve lead generation, follow up while still keeping the customer experience personal. Because that's, that's one of my biggest concerns right now with a lot of my clients is they want to employ AI into pretty much everything. But in the world of sales, lead generation and followup, I feel like if you lose that personal touch, you're going to lose clients and relationships. So what can you say about that.
[00:15:51] Speaker B: So I agree with you 100%. It is something that people should know about, especially if that is a few of people's businesses, especially with sales, because that's your bread and butter.
The mistake is thinking that automation has to. It means robotic, so you sound like a robot. It doesn't. You can automate the infrastructure around the customer relationship while keeping the actual relationship human.
So for example, a system could capture a lead, qualify the information, update the CRM, notify the salesperson and trigger the appropriate follow up. The salesperson can then spend their time actually speaking to the prospect. So you're not replacing the relationship, you're removing the repetitive administration around the relationship. And that can actually improve the customer experience because people get responses faster and the business doesn't lose opportunity simply because somebody forgot to follow up.
[00:16:49] Speaker A: I love that. And what you just addressed is a hot button for me and a lot of my clients right now. Because there's so many parts of that relationship that yes, it could be automated in the sense of AI is like a tool, right? You want the tool to work for you, but you don't want it to replace you.
And I find that to be a great way to explain, at least in the moment when people are trying to understand what it really means. But it's, you know, if, let's say you're a coach and you need to coach this team to a championship, well, you don't want to be dealing with ordering stuff, with scheduling, with drawing out the plans, with making sure the remedial stuff is taken care of. You want to spend as much time as possible on actually coaching the team and, and focusing on the weaknesses, turning them into strengths. So it's kind of the same thing, but in the service based business world, what part of client onboarding are really. Actually, I kind of want to rephrase this a little bit.
There are so many different parts of client onboarding that are really important.
And we know this in businesses that have been building a serious customer base. But what parts of that client onboarding are especially well suited for automation in those service based businesses?
[00:18:05] Speaker B: So there's a huge amount of repetitive administration in onboarding, such as collecting information, sending forms, checking where the documents have been received, creating records. I can go on and on and on. Those processes are usually highly structured. Instead of somebody having to remember every single step, the system can orchestrate the workflow and that creates consistency as well as efficiency. Because automation isn't only about saving someone's time, it's about making sure the business delivers the same standard of every single service.
[00:18:41] Speaker A: Now one bit of automation or I guess AI type technology, software, even that has been around for a little while now and it's continuously evolved is like CRM.
Right now what I am curious about, especially with this being, you know, CRM is something that pretty much every business owner's heard at this point. But how do CRM and system integrations help businesses void that duplicate work and keep information moving between them? Because we know AI is very much integrated in a lot of these systems today.
[00:19:14] Speaker B: So a lot of businesses have software that have AI everywhere. But the problem is none of it talk to each other.
Someone has to manually enter information into one system. Another employee has to copy it into a spreadsheet, somebody else has to put it into another. CRM integrations allow those systems to communicate. So instead of asking your employees to be the bridge between your software, the software itself becomes the bridge. And once information can move automatically, you can start building much more intelligent workloads around the team. And that's where you start moving from isolated automations to an actual connected business system.
[00:19:54] Speaker A: I like that. And I want to pull something back from my past in the manufacturing world. You know, I got to witness the evolution of ERP and MRP systems and how they truly integrated with CRMs. Even now, I will say there were quite a few jobs that could have been replaced by properly utilizing the right AI technology and the right systems and software.
Now back then you didn't have the types of software and systems that were able to communicate as efficiently as they do today. If I had the problems back then, right now, you'd probably be the first person I call to be like, hey, how can I put all this in one big pretty package and have it work together? Because I remember having a set list of roughly six employees where majority of their job as admins were to consistently communicate information between our systems, our CRMs, our ERP system, our inventory system, our production system. It was a mess because although a lot of these things were integrated into one, they were handled as separate systems.
So I think of six different jobs where that could have probably been reduced to maybe one or two. That's a lot of potential savings and not necessarily that I want people to lose their job, but it creates opportunity elsewhere. Whereas somebody might have been better suited for a different position, a different role. You don't really know what's possible until you work with someone like you. So what type of tasks should businesses keep human even when the technology exists to automate them?
[00:21:33] Speaker B: Anything where meaningful judgments, empathy Accountability or complex decision making is required.
So just because something can be automated doesn't mean it should be. There are customer conversations where you want in person. There are sensitive decisions where you want human oversight. There are situations where the consequences of AI mistakes are just simply too significant.
And me myself, I'm a big believer in something we called human in the loop automation. The question shouldn't be how much can we automate. It should be what should the human be doing and what should the system be doing?
[00:22:08] Speaker A: I love this. This is the. You are the first person that I've met in this industry that that really reinforces and echoes the hue, like keeping the human in the loop for these systems because you addressed empathy, that is huge and AI misses that. You cannot expect an AI agent to make a meaningful relationship with somebody and to handle empathy well. Right now, real quick, with the audience likely being very intrigued with this conversation, where could the audience find you if they wanted to explore your work and reach out to you directly?
[00:22:43] Speaker B: So my email address for Phantom Ops is TJ@PhantomOperations CLLA.
There's also our website, which is phantomoperations.com or.co.za as well.
I am also on LinkedIn via TJ Thomas as well as Instagram for our business profile. Phantom Ops under Phantom Ops underscore AI.
[00:23:08] Speaker A: Fantastic. Fantastic. Now to our audience.
Next we are going to be looking at the no code and AI tools behind these systems and how businesses can evaluate ROI without overcomplicating their technology stack. So don't go anywhere, grab some coffee, some popcorn, stretch out, do whatever it is you got to do and maybe even grab a pen and pad.
We'll be right back on the bottom line.
We are back with the bottom line and I'm still here with TJ Thomas. Now, tj, your work uses no code and low code platforms such as Nan maker Zapier alongside AI tools including ChatGPT, Claude and 11Labs. You know, for leaders, the challenge is not just having more tools, it's having clarity about which tool supports the strategy. Right. So this segment, I really need your help because we're going to be breaking down and really kind of looking at choosing the right technology, building reliable systems and measuring whether automation is actually improving the business or just a fancy wrapping paper for more problems. So to dive right into this with tools such as Nan Maker Zapier available, how do you decide which platform is the right fit for a specific business or situation?
[00:24:35] Speaker B: So I don't start with the platform, I start with the business requirements. What needs to happen what systems need to communicate, how complex the workflow has to be, how much control does the business need, what's the expected volume, so forth and so forth. So I don't believe in saying the this is the best automation platform or there's only this is the right platform for this particularly particular reason.
This technology should, the technology should, the technology should fit the business. The business shouldn't have to fit its change to fit its technology.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: I like that because it's, it's not just finding a tool and making it work, it's finding what really needs to happen and aligning it with a tool that can simplify, automate it and really work its best in that setting. So with the evolution and explosion of different AI opportunities and tools out there, how have no code and low code platforms changed what smaller businesses can build without hiring extremely expensive development teams?
[00:25:39] Speaker B: So they've drastically lowered the barrier to entry.
Previously, if a small business wants at a custom system, it could mean quite a significant development cost, long timelines and an entire development team.
Now, currently we connect existing software, AI models and the business processes much faster. But I think people sometimes misunderstand what no code means. It doesn't mean no expertise required. The tools might be easier to use, but you still need to understand the systems, workflows, APIs, business logic, and most importantly, the actual business problem that you're trying to solve. The technology has become more accessible. That means smaller businesses can now do things that previously would have been financially out of reach.
[00:26:31] Speaker A: A few things I want to highlight with this is no code doesn't mean no expertise needed. And although AI has become simpler, there's tools that exist that are easier to use. It doesn't mean you can just dive into it without knowing anything about it. And having it work well, having people like you changes the game completely. Because when you and I first met, it was clear I had no idea what I was talking about when it came to the world of AI. And I didn't know that until I was talking to you and you asked me some calibrated questions. You helped me identify what really works, what doesn't, what system would work better for each type of thing and how they could actually integrate together. Now, I will say a lot of it went right over my head, but I did learn that, okay, I don't need to be the expert of these different tools because I've got you. I've got someone like you that understands you, you see it clearly, and you can integrate processes and, and strategies that will make all the difference. Now, once Upon a time, you and I talked about, I'm going to need another assistant or maybe a couple more people involved. And you're like, well, let's look at the process from 10,000ft. Let's look what really needs to happen. And you helped explain to me that, oh my goodness, what I was looking at hiring somebody for very easily could have been done using AI tools just needed to be set up correctly. So to all the viewers and listeners, it doesn't always mean you need another person in the mix. Sometimes it just means you need to really capitalize on the tools and resources that are available to you. But, you know, with this being in the mix here, what is the best way to connect existing or legacy business tools with newer AI systems instead of replacing everything all at once? Because you help me understand, I don't need to replace a lot of the stuff I'm using. I just need to tie it in better. So what's the best way to connect all that?
[00:28:22] Speaker B: So I'm glad that you said that.
Don't replace something just because it's old. If it's working, keep it. We often build an intelligent layer around the existing systems and using integrations and APIs. So rather than saying we need to replace our entire technology stack before we can use AI that allows, we can rather say, how can we make the technology we already have work better?
And that's what makes it a whole lot easier, especially with legacy models. And I think it's, that's particularly important for small businesses because transformation has to happen while the business is still operating, not stop the business to do this.
[00:29:06] Speaker A: I like that. You know, there's a lot of tools that exist. I'll say this, I'm actually going to keep tying back to the manufacturing experience I have because I, I know a lot of the audience can relate to this. We had an MRP system that had years upon years of data, information, part numbers, just tons and tons of information that it needed to transfer to a newer system that was more, it was more advanced and we needed to migrate to that because frankly, the system we had just wasn't capable of keeping up with the growth that we had into multiple facilities, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars of inventory and processes.
And what that, what the team found as we were migrating is there's actually tools that exist to help you go from one system to another.
And it's specifically built around what is needed to make this, communicate with this. And I never realized even back then that that's able to be done.
So working with you and learning from you, I'm seeing there is so much more that's possible out there now than I really realized. But you know, when you evaluate an automation project, how do you measure the ROI in terms of time saved, cost, reduced capacity and scalability? Because let's be real, this is really what business owners are looking for, is what is the roi, what's my time saved, what cost is being cut? You know, how is it help my capacity and is it going to really help me grow?
[00:30:39] Speaker B: So I look at several aspects of it. My main things that I would look at is most importantly my number one is the time saved, is the cost reduced and error reduction. So for example, if someone spends 10 hours a week doing a repetitive process and automation brings it down to two hours, we've created an eight hour, eight hours of capacity. Now we can ask what is that capacity worth to the business?
And that's how I like to move the conversation away from what does this automation cost towards? What is the automation worth? Because sometimes the biggest return isn't actually direct reduction in payroll, it's what those recovered hours allow businesses to do.
[00:31:21] Speaker A: And to me that's music to my ears because that's as a consultant, that's always what my clients are looking for is what value is it really creating? And I like that. It's not how much, so much is how much does it cost, it's how much value is it really creating. What is this AI system worth to the business? Because to me I'm looking at opportunity cost. Like you said, if you're able to cut down a 10 hour operation to two hours, that's eight hours saved.
Eight hours opportunity to be spent on something else. Not only are you saving the time spent, you could be adding more value at that time. So it's twofold, right? Yeah. So to me that significantly amplifies the value of working with you in these systems. Right. One of the things that I see that's a consistent problem with small businesses is working with a very, very thin budget. So finding what is really going to be worth it. Now to our audience, I'm going to tell you very very clearly, sometimes it costs money to make money. Sometimes you have to invest in a team, in a project, in a tool or resource before it actually saves you value. But if you are able to weather the storm for the period in between, the ROI usually is worth it. So back to this conversation. You know, before a business trusts an AI workflow with an important customer facing or operational process, what should it test and validate first?
[00:32:49] Speaker B: So you need to test it properly, not just the perfect scenario.
You need to test what happens when information is missing, what happens when an AI can make a mistake because they do hallucinate. What happens when a system goes down? What happens when something unexpected occurs.
AI should learn or earn its autonomy. You start with testing, validation, and again, is the human oversight. Then as the system proves itself, you can increase the level of autonomy. I don't think a business should blindly hand a critical process over to AI because that's where the mistakes really do happen.
[00:33:30] Speaker A: I like that. And this really ties back to your philosophy of having human in the loop for the AI stuff, where it might have an operation that's important to do, but you have these checkpoints where human approval is required, where human oversight is required. And I like that. To me, it also means we're utilizing the resources, but we're not taking the people out of it.
Now, one thing that in the world of manufacturing, when robotics really jumped in, and especially in the welding side of things, I dealt with countless teams that were very much against robotic welding.
I was able to help a company in Michigan implement welding robots all throughout their shop. I took the time to learn how to build the programs in them for a lot of the projects they were doing. They were building a lot of vending machine. Not vending machines, the casino machines, like slot machines, the internals, the metal stuff, a lot of different things. And they're very complex. So I showed them that through building a good program, the machine can weld it three times faster with consistent accuracy.
And all you have to have is somebody that can load, unload, set the program, evaluate changes, and start and stop. But the fun thing we found is all those people that were welding it by hand before, when they learned how to program and run the machine, not a single welder lost their job. Matter of fact, they all were getting paid more.
So I don't think it takes away jobs entirely. I think it gives opportunity for advancement, evolution, and creating even more value.
No matter how you include automation. And it's the same thing in the operation or admin side of things. It doesn't mean someone's out. It means someone gets to evolve and grow, and they now have time to spend investing and learning potentially how to use it even better. Right. And your big focus, one of your big focuses on is education, right? And teaching people how to use it. But now, back to our audience again, you know, after the break, because we got to go to a break, we're going to get right back into the conversation and we'll talk about AI adoption, inside teams, the fear of job replacement, and what businesses can do to turn automation into a lasting competitive advantage. So we'll be right back.
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Now that we are back to this riveting conversation. If you ask me on AI and how it can properly be utilized in business. You know, before the break we were looking at tools, integrations and ROI and all of that is very, very important. Now I want us to look at the human side of AI and, and really that adoption process. Now we've touched base on this several times because to tj, this is extremely important and he's one of the only AI groups and, and, and, and companies that I've worked with and talk to that really care about human in the loop for AI process. So what I want to look at is that human side of AI adoption. The leadership mindset required to introduce change, to educate teams, to build trust, remove unnecessary admin work and create more time for growth strategy and client relationships. So tj, it has been an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for being here with us.
[00:37:20] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, man. I've been having fun in this interview.
[00:37:24] Speaker A: Now like I said before, this is something you and I have talked about for a while and it's not a small thing to do this, to put it out there to the world and to be seen as the expert authority in your field, which you very much are. So in this last segment, I think this is one of the most important types of conversations to have. But know you have emphasized that the goal is not to replace people.
What does you know, responsible AI automation look like from your perspective?
[00:37:53] Speaker B: So I see AI primarily as a capacity creation technology.
If someone spends half of their day copying information, sending repetitive emails and updating spreadsheets, that's probably not where the highest value lies.
If AI can handle some of that work, that person can spend more time with customers, solving problems, selling, strategizing and building relationships. So responsible automation isn't how many people can we eliminate, it's how much more valuable can we make the people we already Have. I think that's a much healthier way of looking at the technology.
[00:38:35] Speaker A: You said there's a buzzword in there that I love and I'm going to bring it up because we've talked about it a few times now. It. Capacity, generation, capacity, capacity, capacity. Because a lot of businesses and business owners especially, they say they want to make more money, they got to make more revenue, they've got to make more profit.
Really, I think about what is it they really need that for, right? Because money is used a lot of the time to create capacity in a business.
It opens up new avenues, new opportunities, new resources, new new engagements. And really you want to be able to take on more so you can serve more, create bigger impact, create more resources, whatever that is. And you phrase it and word it so well, AI tools and automation is really, really good at creating capacity and allowing the business to do more and get more done.
Now, how do you educate teams so employees feel confident using AI instead of feeling overwhelmed or even threatened by it?
[00:39:37] Speaker B: It's simple. You involve them. Employees are often the people who know exactly where the inefficiencies are because they're experiencing them every single day. So instead of management saying, we're implementing AI, you bring the team into the process, you show them what you're trying to improve, you educate them on the technology and you demonstrate how we can remove the repetitive tasks of their job. Because ultimately, AI adoption isn't just a technology problem, it's a people problem. If your team doesn't understand or trust the system, you failed the implementation.
[00:40:14] Speaker A: You know, I love what you just said. It's a people problem.
And I'm going to bring this right back to even a different perspective altogether. Not just manufacturing. Back when I was welding, right, and I was running a welding shop and I was leading teams and I was educating people and advanced welding.
I remember introducing a new set of machines called Fronius. It's a, it's a big company.
They, they created very automated welding resources where you can set programs and all you have to do is pull the trigger move and it does the consistent patterns for you, controls the arc, everything, right?
The manufacturing company that I was in at the time, the welders fought against it big time. They didn't like the idea that it took the skill out of what they did. In reality, it didn't. It just meant they could get more repeatable, high quality work again and again and again with less effort. In the sense of a great example, you set it to where it will run a bead for you, have a pulse for you, and do the same type of weld again and again. You still have to control it, you still have to set it, and you still have to adjust the programs after a while. Everyone loved it because it made them look better, it made them happier. I mean, goodness, it made a lot of them more money because they could consistently put down extremely high quality work in less time. So, yeah, it made them more value. And then, you know, few guys knew how to program it so they could build it for new things we were working on it created value. But people will fight against change because they don't understand. So your angle of education is to help them understand it and see it as a tool for their betterment, growth and process, rather than something that could replace them or make them less valuable. But once repetitive administrative work is reduced, where do you believe people can create the most additional value inside of a business?
[00:42:12] Speaker B: My main one would be selling. You have more time to deal with what brings in the money. So we're no longer just asking how many hours can AI save? We're now asking, what could your people accomplish if those hours were returned to them?
[00:42:29] Speaker A: I like that. And you address something that's a big philosophy of mine. And you and I've talked about this a lot. You know, when it comes to the world of capacity, you want to create the capacity so you can spend that time bringing in more resources. And a lot of the time that is sales, it is focused on improvements, efficiency. But if you have AI tools that are making things more efficient, let's say you've got a sales team and you've got three sales people, where half of their time or even a quarter of their time is, well, it's, it's really consumed by those admin tasks. If you open up as much of that time as possible, they got more time to be dealing with clients, to close deals, to work on building the relationship gaps, you know, filling those gaps with new customers, or even hate to say it, but I'm going to say it. Taking away from your competition because you got more time to treat that customer better. Right?
This is all benefit and value. And to me, that's music to my ears. And it says, hey, numbers go up, stress goes down. But what separates businesses that will turn AI into a competitive advantages from businesses that simply keep adding new tools?
[00:43:38] Speaker B: I think the businesses that are going to win are the ones that are actually implementing AI in the way they operate rather than just collecting AI tools.
So it's about making your business understandable to AI. We've already seen ChatGPT has moved into advertising so they are now doing paid ads.
What we are trying or while that what that tells me is that there's an important blow up that's about to happen. People are increasingly going to be using conversational AI such as your chat, GPT and Claude to explore options, compare businesses and make decisions.
So can a an AI actually understand my business is going to be the next question and that's where geo or generative engine optimization comes in.
[00:44:26] Speaker A: I like that. And you know, for businesses really I'mma phrase this a little bit different. I want to look at this from a business owner perspective. For business owners watching today, what is one practical step they can take this week to begin using AI more strategically?
[00:44:44] Speaker B: Don't start by buying another AI tool.
Take one.
[00:44:48] Speaker A: Fair enough.
[00:44:49] Speaker B: Your business that frustrates you. Then write down every step from beginning to end. Then ask then does a human actually need to see this? If the answer is no, that's potentially your first automation opportunity. Solve it, measure the result and then move on to the next one.
[00:45:06] Speaker A: I love that. Simple, concise and real. So tj for viewers who want to learn more, how can they connect with you? And learn more about Phantom Ops so
[00:45:17] Speaker B: they can Visit the website phantom operations.com Phantom Ops is an AI transformation partner. We help businesses understand where AI can actually create the value, identify inefficiencies, implement automation and AI systems and integrate their current or existing technology and educate their team so that they can actually use these systems.
[00:45:40] Speaker A: I love that. Now to our audience, I'm going to recommend that if you have questions, if you want to know more, if you want to see where AI doesn't replace the important things of your business, it just amplifies it, strengthens it and doesn't keep people out of it. I really think TJ is a very good option. I know I'm working with him personally and we are finding projects to partner with now. Tj, thank you for joining me on the bottom line. You know what stands out from this conversation is that the bottom line on AI is not about chasing every new tool. It's about clarity, identifying the right bottleneck, choosing an automation that creates measurable value and giving people the confidence to use it well. So for everyone watching, take a look at the repetitive work inside your business. If your team is losing valuable time to manual follow up, data entry, onboarding or really disconnected systems, choose one friction point and start there. The right system can turn a challenge into capacity for better strategy, stronger relationships and the beautiful word growth.
Now again. I'm Ryan Herpin. This has been the bottom line, and I want to give you one takeaway. Remember, success is not given.
It's earned. And earning it means you've got to become the leader, the business owner, the professional, and the person that deserves it. Sometimes that's looking at tools that can amplify your ability to serve others. We'll see you next time on the bottom line.
